Saturday, March 22, 2008

TND Survey

Looking over the survey data there were lots of great comments about the traditional neighborhood design left by attendees. I picked one for, one neutral, and one against the tnd and added some additional comments.

For the TND:

“A TND design will ensure a growth plan that will meet the needs of our changing world much more than sprawl. “Walkable, “eyes on the streets”, private backyards, save on sewer with density, save on street paving, with density, save on busing when kids can walk to school and watch our property values retain their integrity.”

It is true our world is changing. The US census says:


This country’s population is changing, and so are its real estate preferences. These lifestyle changes have significant implications for development. For the first time, there are more single-person households (26.4 percent) than married-couple-with-children households (23.3 percent). The groups growing the fastest, people in their mid-20s and empty nesters in their 50s, are the groups most likely to look for an alternative to low-density, single-family housing.

US census


This means that some of our new and/or older residents will be seeking exactly what the TND would provide – an alternative to low-density, single family housing. Currently our housing market is lacking inventory in this area, while we have a 30 year supply of lots that are outside the city core with lower densities. This un-balanced situation contradicts our comprehensive plan which states that we should “encourage opportunities for a diversity of housing choices.” Ultimately, having many different housing options is important to our community. It will help ensure that opportunities for home ownership are open to a wider spectrum of income levels.

There is lots of data out there to support the rest of the comments. I’d only add that initial paving and sewer costs are put on the developer, but maintenance and up keep are the cities responsibility. It is very expensive for the city to service water and sewer pipes, roads, pump stations, and plow. By condensing these services it will be cheaper for the city.

Neutral

“I appreciate the open house to explain what’s going on in the city. I have mixed feelings on the TND concept. I hate to see the smaller homes going up but I do think we need to take advantage of what property is available. As long as it enhances the beauty of our city – I guess it is for the best – also brings more taxpayers.”


It’s okay to have mixed feelings about this. Remember a TND is not for everyone. If you have an adverse reaction to the set backs or density it is important to remember that you don’t have to live in one. Even without living in one, there are still community benefits.

1.) Homes located near TND neighborhoods are worth more. When you live in or next to a nice, safe, attractive neighborhood your property values increase.

2.) The city will ultimately save money by having to provide less service to far out future sub divisions (sewer/water upkeep and maintenance, snow plowing…) Ultimately this would allow Victor to put that money in other areas.

3.) Having more people within walking distance to downtown would help bring in more local businesses and help keep our current ones going.


Against the TND

“The reason I enjoy living in a rural area is because it is rural. City density as close as a traditional neighborhood is too dense for a rural area. Not that sprawl is everywhere but not that dense. Does not allow reasonable snow removal.”

I agree, I LOVE living in a rural setting. More then anything I want to maintain and protect our valleys rural lifestyle. Rural areas are better for those who choice to work the land, it is better for our wildlife, and it helps preserve our valley’s beauty.

Development pressures are currently threatening our rural lands. The fact that more people want to move to Victor is beyond anyone’s control. Without good planning, we will witness our rural lands get gobbled up by sub-division after sub-division.

I believe one solution to save our rural land is the TND. The proposed TND box is a half mile in each direction from our city center which even by current zoning is not classified as rural. The idea is, by increasing density within this small box, we will help protect everything outside the box. We are trying to create a density gradient – Having it most dense in the city core and having it taper off as you get further and further away.

There are thousands of TND’s all over the country. Almost all pre-WW2 housing was TND, but as far as new development goes there is currently 18 in Colorado, 9 in Michigan, 9 in Wisconsin, 1 in Montana, 3 in Utah, and 2 in New York. These places all have one thing in common. Snow! We can come up with solutions to deal with snow. Other communities all over the country handle it very successfully.

2 comments:

Jim said...

Great idea having this blog!

Thoughts that come to mind on the TND and the comments posted here:

To keep the valley rural we NEED to focus density/development on the cities - even this may not accomplish much without demand from the consumer. As one comment said - people come here for the rural character. That means a lot of them want to live in the country. Hopefully some of the people who come for the recreational opportunities/mountain lifestyle will be interested in living in a town environment and playing in the rural. People moving over from Jackson will probably see these as an opportunity and that's a pretty big segment of the Victor market's demand right now - layman's perspective of course. How will the new developments in Jackson affect this?

How do we treat the segment that's demanding the rural subdivisions? How do we keep agriculture going in the rural spaces? Can we even get in front of the economic steamroller and guide development? I don't know. I often think of the French countryside when I thinking of the development/density question. I lived there in the 80's and it's a very rural looking place but actually has a high population density across it - because they all live in the towns. Of course, farmland is much more productive there so financially it's made more sense to develop that way.

What's wrong with smaller homes? Until the 60's people got by with much smaller living spaces than we're building now. Look at the downtown of any mountain town built more than 50 years ago. Look at redevelopment in East Jackson. These homes work for people as long as they're not trying to park the F-350 and the camper and the boat trailer in the driveway at the same time.

It seems like single family home sizes today are driven more by consumption than need anyway - the more room you have the more stuff you can pack into it. Why build/heat/maintain a house that's 1000sf bigger than you need just so you can buy a bunch of stuff you won't use to fill it up with? Go for quality, not quantity - easier to say than to do of course!

Snow removal will be a challenge - talk with Park City's government after this past winter! Don't know how much it cost them but they had every loader in the county working on snow removal in February.

More than enough said for now. Thanks again for putting up this blog! Let's keep the conversation going.

Scott Fitz said...

Thanks for the comments Jim. I think you have some great points about preserving the open space through well managed density. I think we might all be on the same page if we look at the issue in that context.